Agnieszka Kołodyńska: Your latest novel has little in common with the world of old Gdańsk. The town is paralysed by terrorist bombs, traffic is at a standstill on 'Kaczynski Avenue', there is a mosque in the centre of town. Are you, as a writer, deliberately attempting to provoke controversy?

Paweł Huelle: This novel is not intended to be a provocation. Some bitter truths are told, but I don't know why it should be interpreted in this way.

'The Last Supper' draws on modernist approaches, it's a novel about the lives of artists. Polish literature has a rich tradition in this area: for example "The 622 Demises of Bung, or the Demonic Woman" by Witkacy or Wacław Berent's prose. Compared to these my novel is relatively mild.

You refer directly in the novel to the painting by Maciej Świeszewski of the same title. This work generated a lot of discussion in the press, many regarding it as kitsch, as an unsuccessful attempt to measure up to the greats. Where does the border lie between kitsch and art for you?

The modern avant-garde is a safe academism, it repeats well known gestures, without bringing anything new. Those who criticise Świeszewski don't know a great deal about the history of art. For me a return to the subjects of the old masters really is avant-garde. Video installations, new media have already burned out. Inspiration needs to be found elsewhere. What Świeszewski dared to do was for me a real act of courage. These days reviews of art are over-simplified into a formula of the type 'hit or miss'. What can you discover about an artist and his work from this? This is how the 'Last Supper' was labelled as kitsch. And who judged it? A few people from the avant-garde scene. Nobody asked, for example, art historians what they think of it – indeed some thought it was very good.

Do you think that modern art is in crisis?

Of course, but not because there are no artists who can measure up to the old masters. I mean particularly the way we talk about art. It's not necessary to immediately scream that something is kitsch, it's also worth understanding what the artist was getting at. Where is the harm if someone decides not to ape avant-garde art and make a pyramid of shoeboxes - as happened recently in the Wyspa gallery in Gdansk – and instead spends 10 years painting the same picture? So what if they are not politically correct? Of course, because it's not making reference to what is 'cool' and 'trendy' today. Luckily people 'vote with their feet'. People go to the Donald Kuspit exhibition in Oliwa 'New Old Masters'. They want to see it, but according to the avant-garde it's 'kitsch'. There is no understanding between the viewing public and progressive critics. Novelty is a mantra under which people hide who have no idea about art. It's sufficient – like Manzoni – to put your own faeces in a can and sell it in a prestigious gallery in order to become an artist. I expect from an artist something I could not achieve myself, something I can authentically admire. Forgive me, but I can put my own faeces in a can and run to curators, critics and journalists for their approval. Maybe everyone would be delighted, but not me.

You have the reputation of a man of strong views. You have had a very public row with Prelate Janowski. Your dislike of him has found another outlet in this latest book. 'Monsignore' isn't worthy even to be Judas in the painting. Do you want to provoke readers into discussing Polish Catholicism?

The Gospel says: "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth". The role of a writer is to engage with the world, I am not trying to provoke for its own sake. But disagreement is an important element of democracy. Prelate Janowski represents a movement which dominates current Catholicism, as with Father Tadeusz Rydzyk... Their version of the Church is xenophobic, anti-European, and populist. The intellectual Catholicism of Lasek, "Więza", "Tygodnik Powszechy", "Znak", which used to be a Polish specialism, has today lost its meaning; at least in the sense that at least half of the episcopate consider it suspicious, ineffective, Masonic and infiltrated with Jewishness. The mainstream is precisely on the side of Father Rydzyk. The intelligentsia and intellectuals are in retreat. The Polish Church is dominated by shallow sloganeering, similar to the Communist era. For many people Rydzyk's opinion counts for more than that of the Pope! But what am I saying, after all they don't listen to a single word of the Pope. This kind of folklore is sick, which is why it is the writer's obligation to raise some questions. Of course I could be wrong, but I think this 'Sarmatism redux' is at least worth questioning.

Who represents the Polish Catholic? Is it the person who, during your trial with Prelate Janowski shouted 'Treblinka' when they saw you?

The crowd shouted that I was a Jew, that I should leave Poland, ideally via a chimney at Treblinka. Happily, there are many different types of Pole. It still surprises me, that such movements find support in the Church, especially after the teachings of Pope Wojtyla. Can you imagine John Paul II sending someone to Treblinka? For me Christianity is a personal relationship with the Messiah. These extreme movements try to force onto us that this relationship depends on the Father Director, or some other functionary. They don't realise that this relationship with the Messiah is available to everyone, not only for supporters of the Monsignore or the Father Director. Their heads have been completely turned. They're shameless and arrogant. Like typical 'God's policemen'. I think that neither John of the Cross or Thomas Merton – my own teachers – would stand on the side of those who would stuff people into gas chambers. In the end, these ways of resolving problems were instigated by the greatest enemies of Christianity, who without blinking murdered thousands of nuns, priest, and Christians.

In the world of your novel we find a mosque in the centre of Gdansk. Do you think Poland will also experience, as in Western Europe, a large Muslim population? Is this a warning against Islamic fundamentalism? Are you echoing Oriana Falacci's concerns?

Europe is in a state of dissipation. Weakness. Impotence. There is no concerted policy against militant Islam. Politicians are powerless, paralysed by political correctness. In 15 or 20 years we will have the same problems in Poland as France has. It can't be resolved only by correctness. In democratic countries integrationist Islamists will win elections and our opinion will not count for anything. They don't respect our conception of freedom, tolerance, multiculturalism. We must demand a clear position from our politicians on this question. I'm not talking about aggression, the last thing that I would like to see is a Christian-Muslim war in Europe. The problem of the aggressive elements of Muslim society will not solve themselves. Terrorist attacks are a reality, arguments about headscarves in schools also. The majority of Europeans do not wish to follow any religion. We must nevertheless think, in this situation, how we can oppose the strength of Islam, this offensive. We can't always be apologising, withdrawing from this dialogue, because it will mean a new Islamo-facist dictatorship. Is what binds us together only growth in GDP, or setting the price of olives? If that is the case then we must immediately admit that Europe, European society is already only a myth.

There are many references in your novel to David Roberts' drawings of Jerusalem. Why did they inspire you so much?

I didn't know his work at all, until I went to Jerusalem. In a souvenir shop I found an exquisite reproduction of a panorama of Jerusalem he did in 1839, with a modern view of the town on the other side. I liked it so much I looked for books of his drawings. I found, among others, an album published in Polish of his travels in Egypt. Also prints of his work published in London and Jerusalem. I decided to use his watercolours as a counterpoint in my novel, and also his meditations on Messiahs, Jews, Christianity and Jesus. He belonged to the generation, – like Chateaubriand – who searched for profound forms of faith. And he was not ashamed to look for his own European, Christian roots. Above all, David Roberts is for me an artist, who – besides anything else – values craft, perfect workmanship, the deepest respect for the viewer. This today has no meaning, it's enough to set up a camera on the street or in the toilet, and it's fantastic. What are fantastic are the drawings Roberts produced during his travels. It's a shame that he missed Slowacki by a couple of months on this expedition. That's why one of the apocryphal scenes in the novel is the meeting between Roberts and Juliusz Slowacki, who – it's worth remembering – had a great artistic talent, he could draw beautifully. As did Zbigniew Herbert. But who today does that kind of thing?